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September 30, 2024 • 3hr 36min
#446 – Ed Barnhart: Maya, Aztec, Inca, and Lost Civilizations of South America
Lex Fridman Podcast
Ed Barnhart is an archaeologist and explorer specializing in ancient civilizations of the Americas. He is the Director of the Maya Exploration Center, host of the ArchaeoEd Podcast, and lecturer on the ancient history of North, Central, and South America. In this wide-ranging conversation, Barnhart discusses the latest archaeological findings and theories about pre-Columbian American civilizations, from the earliest human migrations to the Americas to the rise and fall of complex societies like the Maya, Inca and Aztecs. He provides fascinating insights into the advanced knowledge and achievements of these cultures while also exploring some of the enduring mysteries and debates in the field.
#446 – Ed Barnhart: Maya, Aztec, Inca, and Lost Civilizations of South America
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Key Takeaways
- There are likely lost civilizations in human history that we don't know anything about yet. Recent discoveries like Göbekli Tepe show there is still much to uncover.
- The first humans likely came to the Americas around 30,000 years ago, possibly as early as 60,000 years ago, crossing the Bering land bridge from Asia. DNA evidence has pushed back the timeline significantly from previous estimates.
- South America may have been home to some of the earliest civilizations in the Americas, with evidence of complex societies dating back to 3000 BCE along the coast of Peru.
- The Amazon rainforest likely hides evidence of large, sophisticated pre-Columbian civilizations that have yet to be fully uncovered and studied.
- Many ancient American cultures, including the Maya, Inca and Aztecs, had highly advanced knowledge of astronomy, mathematics, engineering and other sciences that rivaled or surpassed other ancient civilizations.
- The collapse of Maya civilization around 900 CE was likely due to a combination of factors including overpopulation, environmental pressures, and social/political upheaval rather than a single cause.
- European contact and colonization in the 15th-16th centuries devastated indigenous American populations, with an estimated 90% population loss primarily due to disease epidemics.
- There is still much to discover about pre-Columbian American civilizations. New archaeological findings and interpretations are constantly expanding our understanding.
Introduction
Ed Barnhart is an archaeologist and explorer specializing in ancient civilizations of the Americas. He is the Director of the Maya Exploration Center, host of the ArchaeoEd Podcast, and lecturer on the ancient history of North, Central, and South America. In this wide-ranging conversation, Barnhart discusses the latest archaeological findings and theories about pre-Columbian American civilizations, from the earliest human migrations to the Americas to the rise and fall of complex societies like the Maya, Inca and Aztecs. He provides fascinating insights into the advanced knowledge and achievements of these cultures while also exploring some of the enduring mysteries and debates in the field.
Topics Discussed
Lost Civilizations and Early Human Migrations to the Americas (8:59)
Barnhart believes there are likely lost civilizations in human history that we don't yet know about. Recent discoveries like Göbekli Tepe show there is still much to uncover. Regarding the first humans in the Americas:
- DNA evidence now suggests humans first arrived around 30,000 years ago, possibly as early as 60,000 years ago
- They likely crossed the Bering land bridge from Asia in multiple waves of migration
- The earliest migrants may have traveled all the way to South America initially
- "I think it was big leaps. Now, this is just mostly guess, I'll admit, but I think that much in the way that a lot of our evolutionary models talk about punctuated equilibrium, that there are big moments of change and then it settles out into a more slow and steady pattern and then something big will happen again."
Early Civilizations in South America (29:28)
Barnhart discusses evidence of very early complex societies in South America, particularly along the coast of Peru:
- Sites like Caral show evidence of large urban centers and monumental architecture dating back to 3000 BCE
- Peru has thousands of ancient pyramid structures, many still unexplored
- The Amazon likely hides evidence of large pre-Columbian civilizations yet to be fully uncovered
- Possibility of a "lost cradle of civilization" in South America that predates other early civilizations
Religion and Shamanism in Ancient American Cultures (42:01)
Barnhart proposes that religion in South America may have originated in the Amazon rainforest. He discusses the role of hallucinogenic plants and shamanic practices:
- Use of ayahuasca and other psychoactive plants likely goes back thousands of years
- May have played a role in the development of religious and cosmological ideas
- Evidence of shamanic practices found in ancient art and architecture
- "I think that hallucinogens opened the mind then, like they opened the mind now."
Maya Civilization (1:21:12)
Barnhart provides an overview of Maya civilization and some key aspects:
- Originated around 1800 BCE, classic period of kings from ~250-900 CE
- Highly advanced knowledge of astronomy, mathematics, writing system
- Complex political system of competing city-states
- Reasons for collapse around 900 CE likely multifaceted - overpopulation, environmental pressures, social upheaval
- Calendar system reflects sophisticated understanding of astronomy and cyclical nature of time
Mayan Calendar and Astronomy (1:37:00)
Barnhart explains the complex Mayan calendar system and their advanced astronomical knowledge:
- Multiple interlocking calendar cycles - 260 day sacred calendar, 365 day solar year, Long Count
- Ability to calculate and predict astronomical cycles over vast time periods
- Evidence they understood precession of equinoxes - 26,000 year cycle
- "The Maya were able to figure out, wait, it's moving one degree every 72 years and did a calculation based on where it should be in the ancient past."
Aztec Empire (2:20:46)
Key points about the rise and nature of the Aztec Empire:
- Emerged as dominant power in central Mexico in 14th-15th centuries CE
- Expanded rapidly through military conquest and intimidation
- Practice of large-scale human sacrifice as part of religious/political system
- Sophisticated culture with advances in art, poetry, education despite violent aspects
- Spanish conquest facilitated by alliances with Aztecs' indigenous enemies
Inca Empire (2:38:12)
Barnhart contrasts the Inca Empire with the Aztecs:
- Rose to power in Andean region in 13th-16th centuries CE
- Expanded through mix of conquest and incorporation of conquered peoples
- Sophisticated system of governance, infrastructure, record keeping (quipu)
- Provided stability, food security for subjects across vast territory
- "People lived well in the Inca empire. It was a rough beginning, but everybody who agreed to be part of it immediately had access to a whole bunch of resources and security they never had."
Impact of European Contact and Colonization (3:02:10)
Barnhart discusses the devastating impact of European contact on indigenous American populations:
- Estimated 90% population loss in first 50 years, primarily due to disease epidemics
- Loss of knowledge, cultural practices, and oral histories
- Disruption and displacement of surviving populations
- Collective "amnesia" about sophisticated pre-Columbian civilizations, especially in North America
Future of Archaeology and Human Civilization (3:15:23)
Barnhart shares his thoughts on the future of archaeological discoveries and human civilization:
- Likely still major discoveries to be made, especially in Amazon and underwater
- New technologies allowing reinterpretation of existing evidence
- Importance of interdisciplinary approaches and indigenous knowledge
- Optimism about human adaptability in face of future challenges
- "I believe in the spirit of humankind. I, as a person who have studied history, I kind of feel like history does kind of a sine wave. There's highs and there's lows, but no matter how low we go, we get up again and we climb."
Conclusion
This wide-ranging conversation with Ed Barnhart provides a fascinating overview of the latest archaeological findings and theories about pre-Columbian American civilizations. From the earliest human migrations to the Americas to the rise and fall of complex societies like the Maya, Inca and Aztecs, Barnhart offers insights into the advanced knowledge and achievements of these cultures while also exploring enduring mysteries. He emphasizes how much there is still to discover, with new findings constantly expanding our understanding. Barnhart also highlights the devastating impact of European contact and colonization, which disrupted indigenous American societies and led to massive population losses. Looking to the future, he expresses optimism about human adaptability and the potential for further major archaeological discoveries. Overall, this discussion underscores the sophistication and diversity of pre-Columbian American civilizations and the importance of continuing to study and learn from their legacy.