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October 23, 2024 • 1hr 9min
#450 – Bernie Sanders Interview
Lex Fridman Podcast
Bernie Sanders is a U.S. Senator from Vermont and two-time presidential candidate who has become one of the most prominent progressive voices in American politics. In this wide-ranging conversation with Lex Fridman, Sanders discusses his political philosophy, key policy positions, reflections on his campaigns, and vision for the future of the Democratic Party and the country.
Sanders reflects on his long career in politics, from his early days as mayor of Burlington to his presidential runs that helped popularize progressive ideas. He offers candid thoughts on the state of American democracy, the influence of money in politics, and the struggle between corporate and progressive wings of the Democratic Party.
#450 – Bernie Sanders Interview
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Key Takeaways
- Money in politics is a major issue that Bernie Sanders sees as corrupting the democratic process. He advocates for public funding of elections and overturning the Citizens United decision.
- Healthcare reform is a top priority for Sanders. He supports a Medicare for All system that would provide universal coverage and eliminate out-of-pocket costs.
- Income and wealth inequality have grown dramatically in recent decades. Sanders believes this concentration of wealth and power is moving the U.S. towards an oligarchy.
- Climate change and a Green New Deal are key issues Sanders has championed to create jobs while transitioning to clean energy.
- Sanders sees his presidential campaigns as helping to popularize progressive ideas and inspire a new generation of progressive politicians and activists.
- He advocates for a "democratic socialism" that provides a strong social safety net while still allowing for innovation and entrepreneurship.
- Sanders emphasizes the importance of grassroots organizing and mobilization to create political change, rather than top-down approaches.
Introduction
Bernie Sanders is a U.S. Senator from Vermont and two-time presidential candidate who has become one of the most prominent progressive voices in American politics. In this wide-ranging conversation with Lex Fridman, Sanders discusses his political philosophy, key policy positions, reflections on his campaigns, and vision for the future of the Democratic Party and the country.
Sanders reflects on his long career in politics, from his early days as mayor of Burlington to his presidential runs that helped popularize progressive ideas. He offers candid thoughts on the state of American democracy, the influence of money in politics, and the struggle between corporate and progressive wings of the Democratic Party.
Topics Discussed
Early Political Activism and Influences (8:51)
Sanders discusses his early involvement in the civil rights movement, including attending the 1963 March on Washington where Martin Luther King Jr. gave his "I Have a Dream" speech. He reflects on King's influence:
- King built a grassroots movement from the bottom up to fight segregation and expand voting rights
- King showed courage in opposing the Vietnam War despite establishment backlash
- "What he did is he created his movement from the bottom on up. He developed real organization, grassroots organization, which put pressure on communities and officials to end segregation, to open up voting patterns."
Opposition to Iraq War and Patriot Act (11:43)
Sanders discusses his votes against the Iraq War resolution and Patriot Act in the early 2000s:
- He was skeptical of the Bush administration's claims about WMDs in Iraq
- His opposition was informed by the lies that led to the Vietnam War
- He accurately predicted many of the negative consequences of invading Iraq
Money in Politics and Oligarchy (13:04)
Sanders argues that the U.S. is moving towards an oligarchic form of society due to the concentration of wealth and political power:
- Billionaires and corporations have outsized influence on elections and policy through campaign contributions and lobbying
- There are over 1,000 pharmaceutical industry lobbyists in Washington D.C.
- The military-industrial complex exerts influence through a "revolving door" between government and defense contractors
- "We are moving to an oligarchic form of society. And not a lot of people are familiar with that term, but what it means is we talk about oligarchy in Russia. Putin is surrounded by the oligarchs. Well, guess what? What do you think is happening in the United States?"
Campaign Finance Reform (17:19)
Sanders advocates for major reforms to get money out of politics:
- Overturn the Citizens United Supreme Court decision
- Move to a system of public funding of elections
- Set limits on campaign spending to level the playing field
- "We move to public funding of elections. That means you want to run for governor, you want to run for Senate, show that you have some support, get $5 contributions from X number of people to show you you're not a flake, you have some support and the government will pay certain amount more and there will be a limit the amount of money that can be spent."
Healthcare Reform and Medicare for All (23:00)
Sanders makes the case for his Medicare for All proposal to provide universal healthcare coverage:
- Would eliminate out-of-pocket costs and provide comprehensive coverage to all Americans
- Similar to systems in other developed countries like Canada
- Would be funded through progressive taxation rather than premiums and deductibles
- Aims to reduce costs by eliminating the profit motive of insurance companies
- "We are spending twice as much per person on health care as the people of any other nation. Incredibly wasteful system."
Reflections on 2016 Presidential Campaign (31:33)
Sanders discusses his 2016 presidential run and its impact:
- Took on the Democratic establishment as an outsider candidate
- Won 23 states and popularized progressive policy ideas
- Inspired many progressive candidates to run for office
- Ultimately supported Hillary Clinton to try to prevent a Trump presidency
Thoughts on Barack Obama (37:32)
Sanders reflects on Barack Obama's presidency and legacy:
- Praises Obama's historic achievement as first Black president
- Calls Obama "extraordinarily intelligent" and articulate
- Disagrees with Obama on some policy issues like healthcare reform
- Recounts a 2018 meeting where Obama advised moderating his approach
Critique of Capitalism (43:26)
Sanders discusses his views on capitalism and "democratic socialism":
- Criticizes "hypercapitalism" that has led to extreme inequality
- Advocates for a strong social safety net like in Scandinavian countries
- Believes innovation can coexist with policies to reduce poverty
- Wants to reward success while limiting extreme accumulation of wealth
- "We want to reward success, fine, but you don't need a billion dollars. We want people to get satisfaction from what they accomplish, the work they're doing, whether it's cleaning the street or developing a new drug."
Response to Attacks on Personal Wealth (51:35)
Sanders addresses criticisms about his own net worth and property ownership:
- Owns a home in Vermont, DC apartment, and modest lake house
- Wealth mostly from book sales and Senate salary
- Still drives an 11-year-old car and lives modestly
- Acknowledges reduced financial stress but tries to stay connected to working class struggles
Future of the Democratic Party (56:32)
Sanders discusses the growth of the progressive movement within the Democratic Party:
- Progressive Caucus in House has grown to nearly 100 members
- Sees struggle between corporate and progressive wings of party
- Believes party needs to better represent working class interests
- Praises young progressive leaders like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Decision Not to Run in 2024 (59:00)
Sanders explains why he chose not to run for president again in 2024:
- Didn't want to split the party and risk a Trump victory
- Supports Biden's domestic policy record
- Hopes to see future progressive candidates emerge
Thoughts on Mortality (1:04:24)
At 83, Sanders reflects on aging and mortality:
- Not afraid of death but concerned about potential infirmity
- Heart attack 5 years ago was first time his body "failed him"
- Has compassion for elderly dealing with physical/mental decline
Hope for the Future (1:06:30)
Sanders shares what gives him optimism about America's future:
- Inspired by engaged young people he meets on the campaign trail
- Sees many Americans wanting to improve society, not just get rich
- Grateful to have witnessed diversity and passion of supporters nationwide
- "When you go out around the country, you go to Native American reservations and you go to factories and everything and you see so many wonderful people. I have been able to see things that many others have not been to every state in the country. And that inspires me."
Conclusion
Bernie Sanders remains a passionate advocate for progressive policies and political reform even after decades in public service. This wide-ranging conversation showcases his views on key issues like healthcare, income inequality, and money in politics. Sanders reflects on his political journey from activist to presidential candidate, and how he has helped popularize once-fringe ideas. While acknowledging the many challenges facing the country, he maintains hope in the American people's desire for positive change. Sanders sees his legacy as inspiring a new generation of progressive leaders to continue the fight for a more just and equitable society.