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October 17, 2024 • 1hr 27min
#773: Andrew Roberts on The Habits of Churchill, Lessons from Napoleon, and The Holy Fire Inside Great Leaders
The Tim Ferriss Show
Andrew Roberts is a renowned historian and author who has written extensively on key historical figures and events. In this wide-ranging conversation with Tim Ferriss, Roberts discusses his approach to studying and writing history, shares insights on great leaders like Napoleon and Churchill, and offers his perspective on the importance of historical knowledge in the modern world.
Roberts brings a wealth of knowledge from his decades of historical research and writing. His books have won numerous literary prizes and he holds academic positions at institutions like Stanford University and King's College London. This discussion provides a fascinating look into Roberts' process as a historian and his views on leadership, statecraft, and the lessons we can learn from the past.
#773: Andrew Roberts on The Habits of Churchill, Lessons from Napoleon, and The Holy Fire Inside Great Leaders
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Key Takeaways
- Andrew Roberts is a prolific historian and author who has written 20 books translated into 28 languages, including biographies of Napoleon, Churchill, and George III
- Roberts emphasizes the importance of studying history to understand the present and gain insights into statecraft and leadership
- Great historical leaders like Napoleon and Churchill had a strong sense of personal destiny and belief in their mission, which drove their actions
- Roberts is concerned about declining interest in history education and believes it's crucial for national identity and understanding the world
- When writing history, Roberts avoids hedging words like "perhaps" or "maybe" and strives for objectivity and accuracy
- Roberts keeps a personal diary and believes in the power of words to achieve a form of immortality
- Collaboration with experts like General David Petraeus can produce insightful historical works combining academic and practical perspectives
- Roberts is somewhat pessimistic about the future of Britain due to declining pride in national history, but more optimistic about America's prospects
Introduction
Andrew Roberts is a renowned historian and author who has written extensively on key historical figures and events. In this wide-ranging conversation with Tim Ferriss, Roberts discusses his approach to studying and writing history, shares insights on great leaders like Napoleon and Churchill, and offers his perspective on the importance of historical knowledge in the modern world.
Roberts brings a wealth of knowledge from his decades of historical research and writing. His books have won numerous literary prizes and he holds academic positions at institutions like Stanford University and King's College London. This discussion provides a fascinating look into Roberts' process as a historian and his views on leadership, statecraft, and the lessons we can learn from the past.
Topics Discussed
Early Interest in History (9:56)
Roberts traces his passion for history back to his childhood, crediting two key influences:
- His prep school history teacher, Christopher Perry, who made history exciting through narrative storytelling and dramatic retellings of historical events
- His father, who studied history at Oxford and would take young Andrew to visit castles and discuss historical "what ifs" during family trips
These early experiences instilled in Roberts a lifelong fascination with history and its relevance to understanding the world.
Approach to Writing History (13:05)
Roberts discusses his methodology for writing compelling and accurate historical works:
- Avoids hedging words like "perhaps," "maybe," and "probably" which he sees as "cheat words" that signal uncertainty to the reader
- Strives for objectivity and accuracy, while still including interesting anecdotes that illuminate personalities
- Uses phrases like "it is said that" to signal to readers when including less verified stories or claims
- Believes in maintaining trust with readers by being clear about what is known versus speculative
This approach allows Roberts to write engaging historical narratives while maintaining scholarly rigor.
Insights on Napoleon and Churchill (14:20)
Roberts shares his analysis of two of history's great leaders:
- Both had extensive military education and training that prepared them for high-level command
- Possessed strong self-confidence and belief in their mission, allowing them to make difficult decisions
- Were voracious readers, studying history and philosophy to inform their worldviews
- Had a sense of personal destiny and belief they were meant for greatness
- Napoleon was a military genius who could succeed in various types of warfare and revolutionized French society
- Churchill drew on historical knowledge to inspire the British people during WWII
Roberts argues their education, reading, and sense of destiny were key to their success as leaders.
The Importance of Studying History (1:06:40)
Roberts makes a passionate case for the value of historical knowledge:
- Provides context for understanding current events and the forces shaping our world
- Offers lessons in statecraft and leadership that remain relevant today
- Connects us to our cultural heritage and provides a sense of identity
- Allows us to learn from past mistakes and successes
- Chose "Study History" as his personal coat of arms motto to emphasize its importance
He argues that declining historical knowledge is concerning and could lead to repeating past errors.
Roberts' Writing Process (44:00)
Roberts offers insights into how he approaches writing his historical works:
- Tries to maintain creative flow when writing difficult sections, sometimes working for days without breaks
- Keeps a personal diary to record daily events and interactions
- Works closely with his editor Stuart Proffitt who provides extensive feedback and critiques
- Aims to capture the essence of historical moments through immersive writing
- Collaborates with experts like General David Petraeus to gain insider perspectives on military history
This disciplined approach has allowed Roberts to produce numerous acclaimed historical works.
Views on Historical Legacy (52:53)
Roberts reflects on why some historical figures are remembered while others fade into obscurity:
- Charisma, charm, and compelling personal stories help figures stand out in historical memory
- Leaders during major wars and conflicts tend to be more prominently remembered
- Some qualities like charisma are difficult to capture in writing but contribute to lasting fame
- Believes words and ideas can achieve a form of immortality beyond physical monuments
- Acknowledges the human drive for legacy and remembrance as a motivation for historical figures and writers alike
While uncertain of his own legacy, Roberts hopes his historical works will be read long after he is gone.
Thoughts on Teaching History Today (1:03:31)
Roberts expresses concern about the state of history education:
- Fewer students studying history at the university level in Britain
- Curriculum gaps skipping important historical periods between the Tudors and World War II
- Surveys showing concerning lack of basic historical knowledge among British teenagers
- Believes declining pride in national history could negatively impact Britain's future
- Argues for teaching history objectively, including both positive and negative aspects of imperialism
He advocates for renewed emphasis on history education to create more historically literate citizens.
Roberts' Latest Work and Future Projects (1:15:34)
Roberts discusses his recent and upcoming books:
- "Conflict: The Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Gaza" co-authored with General David Petraeus, examining major conflicts since WWII
- Upcoming book on "Napoleon and his Marshals" exploring the emperor's relationships with his top commanders
- Biography of Benjamin Disraeli in the works, examining how this outsider rose to become one of Britain's most powerful leaders
These projects showcase Roberts' continued focus on military history and influential leaders.
Conclusion
Andrew Roberts makes a compelling case for the enduring relevance and importance of studying history. Through his own work examining great leaders and pivotal events, he demonstrates how historical knowledge can provide crucial insights into leadership, statecraft, and the human condition. While expressing some pessimism about declining historical literacy, Roberts remains passionate about sharing historical knowledge through his books, podcasts, and public engagement.
His methodical approach to researching and writing history, combined with a storyteller's flair for bringing the past to life, has made Roberts one of today's preeminent historians. By studying figures like Napoleon and Churchill, he argues we can better understand the qualities that make for effective leadership in times of crisis. Ultimately, Roberts believes that grappling with our shared history - both its triumphs and its darker chapters - is essential for navigating the challenges of the present and future.