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November 10, 2024 • 1hr 24min
Everything you’ve ever wanted to know about SAFe and the product owner role | Melissa Perri (author, founder of Product Institute)
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career
Melissa Perri, author of "Escaping the Build Trap" and founder of Product Institute, discusses the evolution of product roles, particularly in large non-tech organizations undergoing digital transformation. She shares insights from years of experience helping companies implement better product practices.
Everything you’ve ever wanted to know about SAFe and the product owner role | Melissa Perri (author, founder of Product Institute)
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Key Takeaways
- Product Owner vs Product Manager roles emerged differently - Product owners came from Scrum/Agile methodologies focused on development processes, while product managers emerged from business/customer-focused product development
- The Product Owner role has limitations - Often too tactical and process-focused rather than strategic and customer-focused
- SAFe framework challenges - While providing structure, it can be overly rigid and process-heavy, potentially hampering actual product innovation
- Career progression concerns - Product owners often lack clear career paths to more strategic product roles
- Digital transformation success factors:
- Mix experienced product leaders with internal talent
- Focus on outcomes over processes
- Enable customer research and discovery
- Create clear career paths
Introduction
Melissa Perri, author of "Escaping the Build Trap" and founder of Product Institute, discusses the evolution of product roles, particularly in large non-tech organizations undergoing digital transformation. She shares insights from years of experience helping companies implement better product practices.
Topics Discussed
The Origins of Product Owner Role (10:41)
The product owner role emerged from Scrum and Agile methodologies, not from traditional product management. Key points about its origins:
- Agile Manifesto (2001) was written by software developers, not product people
- Scrum Guide introduced the product owner role primarily to help developers prioritize work
- Initial focus was on development processes rather than customer value and product strategy
Understanding Agile Transformations (21:01)
Large organizations, especially non-tech companies, often turn to Agile frameworks when trying to improve their software development capabilities:
- Common adoption pattern: Companies implement Scrum/Agile through certification programs and training
- Challenge: Focus becomes more about following processes than delivering customer value
- "When you look at Agile methodologies, what we're really saying there is we want to be able to move quickly and deliver great value to customers. If you embrace those principles, you're gonna do well." - Melissa Perri
The Problems with SAFe Framework (26:21)
Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) attempts to scale Agile practices across large organizations but often creates new problems:
- Excessive process focus over actual product outcomes
- Rigid role separation between product owners and product managers
- Limited discovery time due to continuous sprint cycles
- "Every single person I have talked to who found success with SAFe ended up ripping it up and making it into something else." - Melissa Perri
Digital Transformation Best Practices (40:33)
Successful digital transformation requires a comprehensive approach:
- Key components:
- Clear product strategy
- Appropriate organizational design
- Strong product operations
- Supporting infrastructure
- Leadership requirements: Bring in experienced product leaders who can guide transformation
- Cultural change: Focus on outcomes over processes
Career Paths for Product Owners (56:53)
Advice for product owners looking to advance their careers:
- Focus on value delivery over process management
- Seek opportunities to participate in customer research and strategy
- Frame experience in terms of business outcomes, not just process execution
- Be cautious about over-relying on certifications
Transitioning from Product Owner to Product Manager (1:04:14)
Practical steps for making the transition:
- Demonstrate strategic thinking by questioning the value of work
- Get involved in customer research and discovery
- Focus on outcomes rather than output
- Build broader business skills beyond just development process management
The Role of Certifications (1:06:41)
Understanding the value and limitations of product certifications:
- Certification limitations: Two-day courses don't create product management expertise
- Industry context: Certifications may be valued differently in different types of companies
- Career impact: Experience and demonstrated outcomes matter more than certifications
Evaluating Product Teams (1:11:43)
How to assess and develop product talent in organizations:
- Skill assessment: Look beyond titles to actual capabilities
- Career paths: Create clear progression opportunities
- Team structure: Balance experience levels across teams
- Development approach: Provide exposure to good product practices
Conclusion
The key to successful product development in large organizations isn't about rigidly following frameworks like SAFe or Scrum, but rather about understanding and implementing the principles that enable teams to deliver customer value quickly and effectively. This requires experienced leadership, clear career paths, and a balance between process and outcomes. Organizations need to move beyond viewing product roles as just process managers and instead enable them to be true drivers of business value through customer-focused product development.
